The following text may have been generated by Optical Character Recognition, with varying degrees of accuracy. Reader beware!

j Mr. MPCrea, in introducing his measure/went extensively into the lhistory at lergiaintion in recent years inspecting natural gas. In 1921 the (sjdvry Gas Conservation Act had ,placed gas franchises and prices? iunder a board, but in 1922 Section ' f J The bill provoked a two-hour ms 'cumion. and the division was take: Just after 6 o'ciocit. The two Con ,servativea who opposed the measuru iwere fl. N. Berry. Haidnnand. ap.. fT. J. Mahoney. South Wentwot .Otherwise the vote was a straiglt patty one. both Liberals and Pro gressives solidiy opposing the acl Provisions of 1922 Act. Clause ' of the act, introduced i; 1922. provides that townships whit; granted franchises to gas companies not primarily tor the use of gas. bu for the purpose of permitting the companies to lay pipe lines so that they might conduct the gas to urban centres. should not come under the {jurisdiction of the Gas Board. It , was argued then and also yesterday 3 by the opponents of the Government gmeasure that these franchisee car- t t'ied_with them the right tor farmers ME. Ireland announced the pairs " Messrs. Lewis and Nixon, Hilmer and Wallis. MacBride and Pinata, Nickle and Haney. Mr. Mch thlslns .'leasuré. For necond veatltng----Messrs. Fer- gown. Price. Martin. Godfrey. Craw- ford. Jamieson. Macdlarmid, Finlay- son. Black. Kennedy, McKeown, Grey. Nesbitt, Fania. Bradburn. Clarke, Garden. Welchel. Acres, Joynt. Owens, Ecclestone. Chambers, Carr. Lyons. McCrea. Goldie. Ire- land. Keefer. Currie. Trewartha. Wright. Spence. Kennedy. Chambers (Oxford), Sweet, Elliott, Belford. Graves. Wigle. Oakley, Jamieaon (Simcoe). Stewart. Patterson. Mc- Knight. Willson (Windsori. Mon- teith. McCausland. McBrien. Rowe, Harcourt. Thompson, Wilson. Col- liver, Stedman, Johnston, Hill and Hambly. Those opposed -- Messrs. Sinclair, Clarke. Lang, Belanger. Proulx, Fisher, Brackin. Bragg. Mewhlnney. 'rellier, Sangster. Doherty, Leth- bridge, Widdltield. Carmichael. Tuy~ lor, Rosa, Freeborn. Sewell, Carty, McCallum. Kemp, Berry and Ma- honey., - _ _ - 7 p 1hlfrlJi)lii"gi'reni"jll'"r an iff-lc"'") IN 'IGMW AREAS PLACED WITH BOARD By a vote of " to 34---two Con- eerv-atives' bolting and taking their stand against the Government measure-the Legislature yesterday passed through second reading th, bill of Hon. Charles McCrea amend- ing the Natural Gas Conservation Act. putting under the Jurisdiction of the Natural Gas Board townehm: exempted by Clause 9 or the presmr bill. which clause was adopted in the Legislature in IO?.?. TWO CONSERVATIVES don Legislature, by Vote of 59 to 24, Adopts McCrea's Amendment Waninasclay, Aw-il 9+5 E. P. Tamer (Liberal. North Es- sex) said the bill ignored township franchises. bonuses paid in the past by ratepayers, and placed all under the board. "If we can conserve gas by passing bills. I suggest we pass ten bills a day. sit 365 days in the year. and then we'll have gas for many years to come." said Mr. Tel- lier. "I personally think Section 9 is one that should remain law," said Hon. Manning Doherty, Progressive Leader. The township contracts should not be violated, he said. In the distribution of Hydro power throughout the Province none of them had any hopes, probably. of living to see the day when rates for the users of power on the farms would be as low as the rates for the users ot power prevailing in the larger centres of population. If, in this matter of gas. it should work the other way, to the advantage ot the farmer. he did not think it was a matter that should engage the at- ten_tlon ot the Minister. "Conservation ot gas does not mean boosting the price so that it becomes prohibitory for people who use it, but to use it in reasonable quantities," he said. The operators knew, when they made the contracts, that the gas would play outin time. "and now they want the Government to make it a permanent industry." If Clause 9 was repealed the town- ships would have to fight the Board of Reference. he said, and would have no chance against the gas com- panies. with the latter's experts and engineers. "If you pass this act you work a hardship to the farmers. I think the memhem of this House should consider the interests of the farmers and not throw this matter to the Board of Reference," Mr. Berry concluded. i In the last analysis. he said. the !Government came back to the fun- damental proposition that every municipality that has given a fran- 'chise has given it to obtain gas at a. 'certain rate. While there might he 'varying degrees of rights, subject lo conditions in the fixing of prices. every franchise or agreement enter- ed into had the same Prinv.iple--to give the gas company a franchise for gas at a ttxed price. ft, N. Berry (Conservative, Haldi- mand) announced that, in his fuert speech in the House, he would have to oppose the Government bill. He said he could see no necessity for the MM. Anything brought no the Min- tster's attention must have been brought by the companies, he said. Thinks Section 9 All Right. ' Mr. McCrea touched on the con- iservation argument. and said it was ievident. to prolong the use of gas. (especially for domestic consumers. ithat all possible economy should be ,exerctsed. Experience showed, he (said. that the most otficlent. and "rraetileally the only, check on con- ]sumption was price. Ho declared [that after viewing all the condi- ;tions, the Government had come to 'the conclusion that it was only fair iand equitable. and the proper thing. 'to do, to put all municipalities under {the conrrol of the Gas Board. "Unless we have some syMettt ot contml over everybody it will work back. in the last analysis.. to the mam Where the man n'hn is: M". trolled. and whose prices are ttxel will be called upon to pay a higher' mate because the man in the rural area is being served at a much lower rate. and perhaps at a rate less than cost," said Mr. McCrea. The bill, he said. was taking the power to see that the consumer of free gas used it in a reasonable way. Mr. Berry Is Opposed. illad been inserted. by which were, (exempted from its provisions all',' goontracts and agreements between ' l the owners of land on which produc- _ iing gas wells were situated. and the .person or company operating the. 3 same: and also all contracts between ' ;the company and the municipality. :where, in the opinion ot the Gas: ', Board. they were entered into mainly I' jtn enable a gas company to obtain) l gas, or lay its pipes through any por- " tion of the municipality with the) view of reaching consumers outsidei of the same. It is this Section 9? which is being repealed in the Min-,' ister's bill discussed yesterday. , Conservation Argument. I " l T. J. Mahoney (Conservative. South Wentworth) stated that, the agreements having been etttered into in full knowledge at the pur- poses of the obligations incurred, there ought to be no abrogation ot contracts. If the matter were to be _l1eft to a board. as at the present Ivtime. the townships could not ex- Ina-t to receive Justice. If he had [any surety that the townships would receive Justice. he would support the bill, bat experience with the Gas Board had not been such as to give him that confuenee. Hon. Charles McCrea, Minister of Mines, twitted Messrs. Doharty and Brackin for changing their convic- tions on the legislative necesities ot the gas situation. but Mr. Doherty said that it was then presumed that the Referee would take into consid- eration varying conditions. Views of Deputation. he asked them: "Do you think we should restore every contract that has been'mad-e by gas companies with the municipalities. and let the gas companies sell to anyone they Like?" And, with the exception of one person, they said: "Na, .. are for conservation." "To be consistent," amid the Min~ later, "you must have control over all this gas, because we find that Mr. McCrea said that uo'handxe the situation emciernuly the Government must have control of all the field, and not a, part of it. Mr. BruckIn Curious. The Minister quoted new" to show the effect of increased prices on gas consumption. At 25 cents per c.f., consumption was 161,000 of. per consumer; at 35 cents, only 128,000 c.f.; at 45 cener, 102,000 c.f.; at 60 cents, 25.000 cd., and at " only M,000 c.f. To Mr. Brackin he said he would not accept an amendment In com- mittee to put in the hands of the Referee all methods of gas mm~ tion, excepting "Images in rates. No other method. he intimated, had proved etBeient. 9 per cent. of consumers are rural. and use 25 per cent. of the can. while the 91 per com. urban can- sumem use the other 75 per cent." Mr. Brackrn--How is it proposed that to increase mtes to these rural 00119qu will conserve gas? Speaking of a gas deputation that had waited on him early in the day in regard to tras, Mr. McCrea and by th. H. w. Willson (Conservative, Windsor) said that by this measure they proposed to go back to the legislation of 1921. which was sup- ported then by both Messrs. Doherty and Brackin. All this legislation said was that all municipalities should be treated alike. " cannot see any equitable reason why our contract (in Windsor) should be set aside and we pay 55 cents-4nd. for all the. interest these honorable gem tlemen took today. might be paying 50 cents-and they trot off with " cents." said Mr. Willson. Mahoney Is Doubtful. After referring to Mr. McCrea as "without doubt the moat eminently fair and Just individual I have met in this world," Mr. Brackin went on to show that farmers themselves had laid their own line: to the" main pipe lines. The only individ- uals to be benefited by the act were the companies, he said. "My honor- able friend% bill is a. bill to give the Natural Gas Board the right to raise, the rates in the rural mu- nieipalitiets of this Province." A Back to 1921. Says "'lllson. R. L. Brackin (Liberal. Wetrt Kent), who was responsible in 1922 tor the placing of Clause 9 in the bill, declared that thtre were real. cogent reasons for adopting that clause then. The township; protect- ed by Clause , did not give . tram. chise for the purpose of obtaining gas at all, said Mr. Brackln. They gave franchises to enable the com- panies to take the gas through to the towns and cities. In return for this privilege, which the townships were not bound in law to give the com- panies said they would supply {as at certain rates to all who wished to lay a pipe line up to the main pipes. _ __-_ - Meaning of Secuon 9. When reading was moved Mr. 'Brackin asked