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Conservative" mismtieHr-age should be here. Mr. Ferguson - My honorable friend may not have sent it, but he saw to it that the messages were Mr. Doherty axmin rose to his feet. but his voice was drowned in Conservative applause. He asked tintslly it the Premier had any ob- jection to the people being informed as to what was going on in the Legislature. Scenes of Excitement. Premier Ferguson - When the people of the Province have accurate knowledge I have no objection. But when the fanatics of the Province of Ontario distort the situation and mislead the public, then, I say, it is time the public knew the situation. What has gone abroad is that the O.T.A. u in jeopardy. that this Gov- ernment is making an attack on the O.'P.A. It is the grossest kind of misrepresentation, as my hon. friend knows, and everyone that sits be- hind him know. It is done simply in the hope that the temperance quantum snail be made an Issue to the detriment of this Government. I don't wonder, however, at my friends s-m-artixng under the decision of June last. Proceeding, the Premier said that apparently members sitting opposite had not had the courage to discuss the _questlon really at issue. "The principle of prohibition is not involved in this at all. And nothing is further from the truth than that we are asking the. delega- tion of any legislative functions whatever." . To Gauge Public Opinion. Recalling hit pledge of enforce- ment of the O.T.A. so long as it was the will of the people, and of the opportunity ot a vote it public opin- ion should demand it, he said: "This is simply to give us an opportunity to gauge public opinion on the ques- tion. The Government must take responsibility ot whether it takes the right course afterward. It we ask the wrong questions and gauge pub- lic opinion improperly, we will suffer for it. We will frame the questions we think will give us a. fair reflec- tion of public opinion. If we draw the wrong conclusions from those questions. that is our responsibility as a responsible Government. And if we do what we deem to be the logi- cal thing, bring down a bill, my hon. friends will have full opportunity of discussing it and voting against it. The public will have ample oppor- tunity to discuss it. Then the whole issue will_he_b_et'ore the people. "I would like to ask my friends how they can Justify the statement that this Government is asking for legislation in the interests of the liquor interests. Could anything be further from the facts?" further from the facts?" There were 'only two ways of gauging public opinion, and the Gov- ernment was taking the logical way. The thing was so simple that the page boys, he said, should be able to understand it. But some people, he persisted. were naturally of suspicious temperament, and appar- ently there were legions of descen- dants of the man who, 2,000 years ago, said, " am holder than thou." '"% yuan-v. r. Ferguson concluded b ing the opinion that the iut,a',',ttt,t- .to the amendment of Hon. D. Car mlchael's was obviously out of order.' Expects Tote Within Year. "I want to say this to the House and to the Province: that the Gov- ernment proposes to carry out its pledged word to the people. It pro- poses to pursue a straightforward. honest course in this, and the fer,? tions that will go to the people will be such that they will be intelligible, they will be fair, they will be couched in language that will be an honest effort to get a straightfor- ward answer from the people upon. this question, and our vindication will be a year hence, when we are able to stand in this House and point to our honorable friends op- posite and ask them to judge of the course we have pursued. And I- think that not even our bitterest op- ponents, not even the moat carping hemoaper-rtlt?t twinkling little King Street light-will be able to say that the Government has not (legit honestly and fairly with this qu B- tion and is not entitled to the ap- proval and endorsation of the gen- Shit 3112"ch Wed "Te; on petition of a group of the people, to pass legislation in relation to which the Lieutenant-trover-nor as such had no power of expressing a.n opinion. The courts held that, in so far as the Manitoba bill deprived the Lieutenant-Governor of the power of expressing any opinion by way of veto, the legislation was ultra vires of the Manitoba House. All the Ontario Government asked. -er. Nickle continued, was the right. with the approval of the Legislature, to submit certain questions to the electors. Those questions could be submitted only by the Government passing an Order-in-Council requir- ing the concurrence of the Lieuten- ant-Governor. No matter what po- sition the Government assumed to take, before one single line of legis- lation could be changed it would he necessary for the legislation to he introduced to the House, and before the legislation could be effected the Lieutenant-Governor would have to give his assent. Mr. Nickle then made answer to the argument entered earlier in the day by Mr. Haney. The privilege of legislation was the privilege of put- ;ing on the statute books a. law of the land, and he said he could not follow Mr. Raney when the latter endeavored to Show that the House was being deprived of that privilege. The reason the Manitoba legislation was declared ultra vires was that the passing of the Initiative and the Referendum law was based on the recognition ot the right of the people, the Ontario Temperance Act, and was not an expression of opinion one way or the other respecting temperance, but the implementing of a pre-e1eetion pledge. Cabinet or Legislature? Nickle Answers Raney. He urged the Government to change the hill to meet the objec- tions that had been entered by Oppo- sition speakers. The Government would he well advised in this. he said. No doubt those persons who did not like the O.T.A. would be sending messages to the Prime Minister be- cause they, too, add not know what the questions were to be, said Mr, Doherty amid Conservative applause. "Advised to Protest." In conclusion, Mr. Nickle declared gut 3m; lull was not an attack on A. Belanger, Liberal member for Russell, stated that much ot the Hon. Manning Doherty vigorously dewied that members of his party had wandered far afield in the dis- cussion of the bill. The Prime Min- ister.- he said, must have had his ears. closed when members on his own side were speaking. In respect to any telegram sent out during the week-end, Mr. Doherty said he had made inquiries. and there never was a single message sent .put from a, member on his side of the House. Because the Prime Minister was deluged with messages of protest, he had himself only to blame. Attorney-General Nickle, who closed the debate, reviewed, in part, his utterances of last Thurs. day. when he introduced the bill, and pointed out that, it the Govern- ment did submit questions that were tricky, unfair or capable of a dual meaning, then the Government would be sowing the vilnd, and would reap the whirlwind at elec- iiop time. He declared that he 'oulonged to that group of public men who believed that a Govern- ment should assume the respon- sibility of government; to that school of thought that held that legislation ot this kind should have the mandate of the people in rela- lion to the formulation of that legis- lation. No tmieirGirii Bent Out. Fol-towing Mr. Doherty's address Mr. Ferguson read the Wayhing tele- gram of last June and asked Mr. Doherty if he ever heard of Mr. Wayling. Mr. Doherty replied that the Premier was going far atteld in his discussion of the bill when he went back to last June. The Premier said that he had received shears of lettm and telegrams. and intimated that some of them contained the in. formation that tho writers were ad- vise-d to protest by certain interests in Tomnto. ' Mr. Belanxer indicated the Lib- 'erals' course on Hon. Manning Doherty's move to give the hill the {Six months' hoist by stating that the Liberals would not have altered their viewpoint six months hence. It was important that the Province should know that there was a group in the Legislature who stood for the pre- rogatives of the representatives of the people. Carmichael Dcplores Levitt Hon. Dougal Carmichael. Pro- 'gressive member for Centre Grey, opened with a criticism of the "levity" which, he said, greeted ilite :cussions of the bill on its second ireadhur. He endorsed the views of izhose who had held that the O.T.A., lwhatever might be said of its strin- trent clauses, had relieved a lot ot lmisery among the people of the Province. He defended former At- torney-Oetterat Barney's enforcement of the act. _ fine. nd He opposed the 'bill on the arrou T that it gave a. blank cheque to the Government. While, Mr.' Carmichael sympa- thized with that section of the citi- zenship who probably could use liquor without abuse. and thought it might be wise to 'modify the pen- alties for drinking in a. public place, _ his suggeatlon was that the penal- ties upon bootleggers of "poison"" whiskey should be increased to im- Brisonment without the option of a. After noting that there was no] precedent in European countries for' the action of the Government, Mr.', Belanger declared that the bill con-i stituted "simply a proclamation off lthe Government of its inability to: l frame legislation at the present time. , Thin is not legislation; it is merely a) ttouting of Parliament. I ask the) Government to come down with a bill. and if the terms are reasonable I will support them. I am in favor of the principle of a referendum. .But I ask for legislation. I do not like being asked to Sign a blank Parliamentary cheque." Flaming Parliament. "We say that the hill before the House is contrary to the principle of representative government. We have been sent here from the differ- ent ridings to vote on the important questions of the day. But we find in the present instance that we are not given the opportunity of voting} upon what many will consider a: most important question." 1 "rs Ontario." he asked, "to keep on in that line-a path that di- verges from the straight constitu- tional trail which the great British Parliaments have blazed for future generations and for the self-govern- ing Dominions of the Empire? Lib- eral traditions impel us on this side of the House to raise a protesting voice before this Province againstl such inroads against British parlia-l mentary tradition. I "I claim," he said. "that the pres- ent hill is subversive of representa- tive government; that it sanctions legislation by order-in-Council and proclamation; that it obliterates the fundamental distinction between the legislative and executive functions of government: that it is an abuse of power by a majority of the My sembly. and that it is a misconcep~1 tion of Ministerial responsibility. l, Enct'otuthmenttg upon the princl- ples of responsible government. Mr. Belanger said, had been frequent ot late. not only in Ontario, but in Ot- tawa. He noted the Sandy Bill in the Legislature as one of them. and added: "The last of the violations of parliamentary government is bill Number 101." By Order-in-Council. . 'tffl,'",',,'?,',,,',?, fl'le new t_irtkifiiiiiiAe the su ect o soured the before the Legislature. 'ag'tt, 'ttit the issue was: "Shall 111 represen- tatives of the people in this Assem- bly delegate to a mere dpzen--G its it a baker's qozen---thefr' Prerogau tive of letrialating on an important question for the Province ot On- forln')" Proceeding, Mr. Belanger argued that the very essence of the pro- posed plebiscite was in the question or questions to he asked, Which the Executive sought power to frame, He protested that the LegiatatdrTs was in reality being asked to up- prove a plebiscite question whose wording they were not permitted to know. tarlo ?" N;