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i Hon. Mr. Raney proceedcd to ex-- plain his position in the House when | he had interrupted the Minister of | Lands and Forests in his reply to the question on the order paper rela-- | tive to the over--run tests. He de-- sired to state to the House, he said, | that the data was not yet to hand from the North country, that the figures had not yet come within the knowledge of the Attorney~--General and Government counsel, and that he had intended asking for a gew days' delay when prevented from doing so "by the clamor of honor-- able gentlemen opposite,"' The Attorney--General drew atten -- tion to what he considered a signifi-- cant fact, that, while two of the Government's own expert -- scalers were in the company mills, the over-- run figures,invariably came down to just about the average set by | the Timber Commissioners as prop-- 1 _ er. He went into lengthy details to "'This is a war of systems, Mr. Speaker," declared the Attorney-- General, "not a war of individuals at all. Under this system the mem-- ber of one of the greatest companies in the North country appoints the timber agent and he appoints the cullers. When we start out to re-- form the system honorable mem-- bers from the other side shout 'You are after Ferguson.' We are not after Ferguson at all." Mathieu had stated that he had the Government patronage in his riding. He proceeded to point out in vigor-- ous terms that the timber agent had been appointed on the recommenda-- tion of Mr. Mathieu and some cull-- ers--all men who had everything to do with saying just how much Mr. Mathieu's company was to pay the Government in respect to timber dues. Proceeding, the Attorney--General asked House members what they presumed North country cullers did in return for the $12%5 per month they drew from the Shevlin--Clarke employ. $ g: & May Have "Bought" Over--run. 7. Mageau, from his seat in the Iiberal benches, interrupted with the suggestion that the Shevliin-- Clarke Co. thereby purchased a 220 per cent. over--run. In this con-- nection Hon. Mr. Raney deftounced the system of paying Government cullers a meagre wage for a few months of the year, with which, he pointed out, they could not possibly maintain a posgition independent of the companies. / so exploit his own grievances. . . These tactics are tactics of the jungle."' The old system, he continued. which was defended by Hon. G. H. Ferguson, was a "system of organiz-- ed fraud, of organized piracy, under the guise of patronage. You cannot talk about that system without talk-- ing about crime. It is founded and based on deceit and political patron-- age." He criticized severely Hon--.G. H. Ferguson and the Sheviline Clarke Co. principals for not themselves coming out and assisting the Timber Com-- missioners in getting out the facts instead of defending and even ob-- structing investigation. Had any-- one, he asked, ever heard of this company, through its Manager oc-- cupying a seat in the Legislature, coming out and attempting itself to investigate the forgeries, perjurics and briberies? On the contrary, these things were being dGdefended word by word, line by line, and the people of Ontario were told by Hon. Mr. Ferguson that the whole inquiry was an "infernal farce." The Attorney--General regretted that the issue had been forced on the Legislature by members in the Con-- servative ranks. Only force of cir-- cumstances, he saild., would have compelled him to discuss timber affairs now under investigation. But either the Conservative Leader must admit the present system to be vici-- ous, and offer his aid toward im-- 'proving it, or he must defend the system open'!y "and take sides with lthe tiinber pirates." '"and, with ad'dved"e;m-x-);x'asis.:vit is tlli more unworthy that a man #ould _ Any suggestion, such as that cred-- ited to }lon. Mr. Ferguson, to the effect that he would make the Tim-- ber _ Commissioners' names -- "by-- words" in the mouths of the people of the Province, Hon. Mr. Raney Je-- clared to be unworthy a member of the Legislature. "It is particularly unworthy of a Leader of one of the parties in this House," he added, while nominally in Gdi;érfi'r}--lve-fi'£ MAE Agpciats®snailliia ts cs; 4 h i4043 0419 The complaint which the bill is intended to meet is to the effect that some fruiterers have taken advant-- age of their exempted position to lay in a stock of breakfast foods, canned goods, etc., and dispose of them after the regulation hour of closing for grocery stores. The original legislation along early--clos-- ing lines included fruiterers within its scope, but the Curry amendment of last session exempted them. Legislation introduced in the On-- tario Legislature yesterday by Alex. Lewis, Conservative member _ for Northeast Toronto, proposes to still further tighten the early--closing by. law, which the merchants' organiz-- ations feel is being evaded in some quarters. According to the terms of Mr. Lewis' bill, only such shops shall be exempted from the stipulations of the early--closing by--law as con-- fine themselves exclusively to the sale of fresh fruits and vegretahla« LFGISLATION INXTRODUCE D wWOULD CLOSE LOOPHOLES INX PRESENT LAaAwW EARLY CLOSING BY--LAW TO BE MORE STRINGENT nd vegetables, ch the bill is the effect that show that the commissioners' find-- ings @g to over--run coincided with years of experience of North coun-- try lumbermen. Whatever doubts there had been in his mind as to the wisdom of plac-- ing these timber over--run test fig-- ures before the House, the Attorney-- General declared, in view of the partial information which had got out, it was, in his opinion, now nec-- essary to give the House all the facts and table the reports when tpey ar-- rived. Shevlin--Clarke Manager. Information regarding the use of the Doyle rule was given by J. A. Mathicu, Conservative member for Rainy River, General Manager of the Shevliin--Clarke Company, who re-- pudiated the idea that '"because over-- run is such an amount in one mill it ghould 'be the same in another." A dozen factors, he said, entered into the use of the rule, and anyone who did not ailow for these knew nothing about lumbering. , se _ _"I am General Manager of the Sheviin--Clarke Co.,"" he said, "and I want to say I am not ashamed of my connection with that company, or with patronage, or with anything in my political life in this Province since the year 1911." ue 6 His company, Mr. Mathieu said, bad begged the Government to put scalers on Shevlin--Clarke logs and in theis own mills. '"They would not do it," he declared, "because they were afraid." 7 The statement of his concern, he went on, showed that Sheviin--Clarke had secured an over--run of 121 per cent. and of 53 per cent. in mer-- chantable timber. Why had not the commissioners quoted the statements in full, covering a period of years, he asked, rather than such figures as seemed to suit their desires or the opinion of the pu'blic? e j ul ifi Acidb udnA dn tssn 4 Further, he charged, the com-- missioners had been unfair and ar-- bitrary in their treatment of his company, summoning all the em-- ployees but two foremen and "tying up operations on the whole drive for ten days." The Government Scaler. Regarding James Mcelvor, Govern-- ment scaler, who had been employved by his company, Mr. Matthieu stated that on hiring the gentleman he was unaware that Mclvor was a Government scaler., |_ _ _ "I hired him at $125 a month," he said, '"and I didn't know for years after that he was in the Govern-- ment employ. We didn't know about it, though it went on for years and years,."' i w CCX dce Mr. Matthieu stated that he had considerable data to look up regard-- ing his case and at 11 o'clock moved agjournment of the debate. _ Premier Drury made objection on the ground that too much time was being lost by the House, but acceded 't'c;"ige";'éqfiest of the mermber for Rainy River. The House adjourned at 11 o'clock.