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date the Troa-- urer of Quebec I:rov'ince!Sir Leon-- ard Tilley, and myself met. _ 'The r'nued\ lte:n 1;: dispute, the Indian annuities, invyo ved A ;Rdu Act of last session is ene which provides fer a more speedy settlement of the claims. Te most important issues now pending are the Indian claims, the Lanud Improvement Fund, and the Bmiding Fund. The Indian claiums consist of $140,000, for arrears of payment under the Robinsea 'Treaty as to 1807, and capi« talization $303,280, as to the same date. When we met 1 tound that they claimed that the in-- creasod allowance provided under the Roebinson Treaty went into force Irom the date that treaty went into operation, although there was no provision for that, but only that when the lands in question should prove sufticiently productive to eoable the Government, without ioss, to in-- crease the annuity to four dollars a head. Mr, MEREVITH--Haven't the Provincial Treasurers assented to that increrso ? Hou. A. M. HROSS--No, Theso are charged back from 1850 as to 1867, although for several years -- after that -- thero was _ not a doliar received from the territory. 'Taking into acceunt the recerpts from the territory and taking into account the paymeuts made to the Indians,and the disbursements by the Crown Land Department up to Confederation, the net revemue fell short by $250,000 of meeting the CE GONRCE _ ): o9 000 | i Hon. A. M. ROSS--That £140,000 charged as arrears and interest am ovuts to : 332, 249 which we are clearly entitled to credit for, 'Then as to the capitalizazion, I have aiready said thas they admit that there is an error of $88,000 charged us at 1867 and interest charged simee that date, But it was not till 1872 that the receipts aud balance uver expouditure, even in our own Pro-- vince, ammotnted to the expenditure by our Crown Lands Department, so toat there couid not be til!l 1872 any juast ground for making that claim. Mr. MEREDITH--That was under the Pro« vince of Oid Canada * Buat it is to by taken into consideration that this was not a bargain between Ontario and the In-- dians, buat it was a bargain beiween the Crown and the Indians, and whatever expenditure has been increased by avy one uscessary for opening up the ceuntry mmust se takon into constderation bofore it could be zaid that the Province could ba calied on to give this incressed grant. But, again, the Indiaus noevor made a claiin for the increased grunt till 1873, and we claim that if we are liable at all, our lisabiiity --uly commences when it Was recognized by the Crown, Aund further, I claim that we are NOY LIABLE FOR THE® INCREASED ANNUITY at all, because the Dominion Government capia talizad these annuities and assumed them,taking $83,000 and agreesing to provide for the pay ment under the treatios. These treatios provided for the increase or for the docreaso of the anouities, An increase is provided for, provided the reves ':.no from t.ln: tegritory should justifiy us in LAXD IMPROVENMESI ruNp was established by 16 Victorin chap, 3 btaduatrnaroed CHUmS _ and o8 . A I contend that the $303,000 for of atrears is erroncous altogether The next matter which I wish | old one, but possesses some now fer to a claim of this Province -- improvement fund. This iiiflatint 26. ad B dvicc hnsd 22 s 004 4 0 d nue from the territory should justifiy us in doing #so, and a decrease provided the 1 lians should decrease to twosthirds their numiber, Buppose the Indians had decreased, would .ue Dowinion Government have returned s ©sar of the amount* So Icontend that they agreed on tue sum as one for which they would satisly the fodian . claimes, nanud -- on ' ;y_u, """ S Ho revurned & ~ozar of that they agreed on y would satisfy the __ theso _ grounds for capitaiization ofy e EnnuntOi2 TT EO Const--rmet snould Lake 3t Quebec it was necessary tnas they should take eq into account the claim that Outario had, «nd ts which Quetec had an interest in, and the arbi« of lrators first, before making the division betweon so Ontario and Quaebec, deducied the $44,000 of the he land improvement fund, and then made the he divisiort of the fund, _ By that means they mado -- Bsc m e CR o ue bane Wheal POCESdh ARRCMen RCRRIOC OO MV eCV Tb . 400. CR we have in dispate, We find that we are con-- people of this Province may he overrid fronted with new clatms with regard to Indian representatives of the other Provinces. annuities--claims which I must consider the where I say the wrong is done. In arssu House and the country have never heard of be~ trel of theso roads I say the Dominior fore. _ We are conironted by a claim under a ment assumed the resposibilty of exter ipoaty exeeuted in 1820, which was nover pre« Jocal roads, bocause it was unreasonall ferred against, and nover recogaized by the old Fm that sany Provincial Government v Provinee of Upper Canads, a claim that was onger continue to aid romds ov{ never recognized during the 25 years of usaion, a manazement they had no cont claim that has not been presented by the Do« which were not subject 'to the minion Government to the Province of Ontario ter. _ Thereforo * say thet ' & for seventeen years since that time,. Now wo aro the Dominion Government in assum|' askod to pay the sum of $51,834 principal, and railways put them in a new position. | $16,818 interest, Well, I thmk it is an more. When they assumed theose ro: extraordinary matter that wo have mannor, I say they rondered themselve not _ heard of this claim teforo; but and equitably liable for any proportion what will surprise the House more than that given vy the Provinces,. \{'lxznt was t} is that we find an Order--in--Council was passed on which Quabec got the grant of las by the Dominion Government last October, pros It was on the ground that these roads viding thit this sum should be charged against Dominien had assumed were not local, | this Province as & liability, and more, that the provincial ones, It is the sata~ ground !ndxvm} should be notified that this amount was the assumed the lines in this Province to their credit, and sums have actually been B. KI A. Act theso rorads wore dectsrec paid out on this aecount after the claim has re-- the general advantage <f Canada, : mained in abeyance for sixty--four years Isay have the control of _ tne whole that this is a most astonishing proceedicg An roads, thereby declaring that they are : arrangemneement was made some years ago that looxl lines. 1 say the hbabtlity of the . no c}:llmngo wou'ld be made against the Provinces Governient follows at once. without m conference with the 'Trems-- Mr, CARNEGIE--What is the nan urers, and yot to complete this loeal rosd i bec to which o matter _ the -- Daminion Government _ have f s wes wiieh ths 'ben allowed theso Intiahs 46 draW the on« _f dn nan M# refers ? notifiad! that this .[. . _ _4 ,___ r»ImUIn On¢s, _ it is the sams ground on which Indivos should be notified that this amount was the assumed the lines in this Province. By the to their credit, and sums have actually been B. KJ A. Act theso roads were decisrod to be for paid out on this account after the claim has re-- the general advantage <f Canada, and they mained in abeyvance for sixty--four years Isay have tho control of tne whole of our that this is a most as:onishing proceeding. An roads, thereby declaring that they are no longer arrangemneement was made some years ago that loo«l lines, 1 say the bhabtlity of the Domtzaion no change would be made against the Provinces GovernWent follows at once. wikhont _ a -- conference -- with _ the . Trems-- Mr, CARNEGIE--What is the name of the N Nelni, ~And _ yet. .. to complete _ _this Iogal rosd in Quebec to which the hon. .gentle, matter _ the -- Daminion Government -- have man refers ? ' aliowed theso Indians to draw the sum of $6,000 . 3 > out of these anuuitics, You cannot undersiand , Hon. A. M. ROSS--I referto the road from what difficulty it will cause, I say it was a pro-- Quebse to Ott<wa. That was constructed b'v the ceeding uot called for on the part of the Domin. Frovince of Qu--bee as a Provincial work. 'Phey ion Government whon it was allowed to remain had expanded $11,030,000 in the @onsiruction of in absyance for sixty--four yoars, (App!ause.) that road. In_lh'.i:.' the I'_mvu_xa_nl Government Then we have found h.i }3 /E ¢*_ MApp!inusg,} IUBt TOrO. in 1002 the Pr s i h e ooo e 4 CY in apoy. 2 fN" V NCn !6 was allowed to remain h24 exponded $11,090,000 in the eonsiruction of in absyance for sixty--four yoars, _ (Appiause.) that road. In 1882 the Provincial Government Then we have found that they have got anuther M*#d2 A proposition to the Dominion Government claim besides that for the Chippewas of Lakes !9 b"Y, tuat _ road _ from thom. _ They superior and Simooe, for arrears of $125,000 capi, Offerod it for somoe _ seven | million | dollars, talized, which is for lands that thoy ciaim belong 80 in 1882 Quebec was willing to lose $4,009,000 to them. I am not a lawyer, but it strikes mye 090 what they had expended. _ The Dominon that if they pretended to code lands that did not @overnment refused t . accept it on those term«, belong to them, and if we paid them $4,000 but it was afcerwards sold for soms $700,600, 009 1or lands that did not belong to them, t®oa Syndicate composed partly I belisve of mem-- If we are linble in one case we are not in NM; bers of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company, other, If these lands did not belonge to them walu 1882 the pesople o Quebec deciared they were are not h;xblo.to pay them, An Order in Couneil Willing to submit to that loss, but last vear tok. was passed in this case also, no notification be--iv@ wivantazo of opportunities the Government my given until it was done. I cannot sonceivg C994 d not rosi«}, they secured $3 256,000, In that this claim is put forward with any l':noer'n' viow of this I say we are aiso enlitiod to a pro-- at nl!,'but merely to make believe that the Pro. portion of our graut ; and that ong Provincs yince is entitled to loss from the Dominion than mu:t be dealt with on as fair terms a« ano her if it really is Then ever _ Coniederation is -- to _ exist W e WE HACB mnr awew D entAak aan ons PRRSP SE _ _ _a c¥ se t given untii ;3 _ _ ""C nso, no notification be-- mg given until it was done. I cannog doncrive that this claim is put forward with any sincerity at al!, but merely to make believe that the Pro-- yince is entitled to loss from the Dominion than it really is. Then -- ¥s., __"_C 14 UHO ChASG other. If these lands did not b are not liable to pay them, A; was passed in tiis case also, 1 mg given until it was done. I Chak his s40:00 ¢ 1 NOT fman. a11. 1. °4 THTVd * HRAb is been taken from--them. Th we estimate the Dominion hs MHibtrrororrtermmmmememmmm mm 22. THE ONLY CLAIM3 ing wdvantage of o cou d not rasi«t, ; viow of this I say 1 portion of our gr: mut be dealt with ever _ Coniederat cannet go on this to rscuive bnef's [ t Cokir--tl?ril--What is the name of the loeal rosd in Quebec to which the hon. .gentle, man refers ? Hon, A, M. ROSS--I refer to the road from Quebse to Oit : wa. That was constructed by the Province of Qu--bec as a Provincial work. -- 'They had exponded $11,030,000 in the consiruction of that road. In 1882 the Provincial Government made a proposition to the Dominion Government to buy thait roud from -- thom. They offereod it for some seven million dollars, so in 1882 Quebec was willing to lose $4,000,000 on what they bhad exvemdamt -- "The HBusilll® Hon. A. M. ROSS--AL infand fisheries, Mr. MEREDITH----LI suppose iake fisheries also ? Hon. A. M. ROSS--Certainly, Then there i@ another claim, of the amount of which the House is unfortunately, in ignorance,. I refer to the disputed territory, No uoubt the Dominion Government have been colieoting large amounts for land, timber, and minerals, and wo will have a large claim against them. Then we have a third claim which caunot be legally enforced as the other two can, but it is nevertheless eqiuit= able and just. Mr. MEREDiTH--Consequontial damages. Hon, A. M. KROSS--Not consequential dam« agos, but the sum we ought to get as a reimburs wenrt in part of our aid griven to PLOVINCIAL RAILWAYS, in the same way as it was given to the Province of Queabec by the resolutions of last seasion. The House wiil remembver that that Provimes Inast year obtained $2,000,000. It is not for me to say whether their compliance with the demand for this was wise or not, My dnty as the financ'al offhicer of Ontario is to soe that they deal in the same manuer with this Province as they deali with the others, and that this Province receives equal consideration and justice with them. 'This Con-- federation was entcred upon as a partnership, and should be carried on on partmership prins ciples, _ The recognition of the demands for aid to local railways had herstofore been liberally mot by this Government. The charters for thesr lecal railways wore applied for to the Local Legisiature. lzr.ovim'tml were foroposed unuder whiuch we gave those charters Now, in 1882 the railways wore taken over, and their re-- lation to the Domimnion Gowernmment is entirely changed. * raiways put them in more. When they manner, I say they r and equitably liable j Hon,. A. M. ROSS--I do not contend that the Act} by wluch the Dominion assumed sontrol of var railwayscontainsany provisions which change the chavlersi;we gave them, but when they as-- sumed them they assumed the power to change these corditions as they see fit The viewsof the people oi this Province may he overriden by the representatives of the other Provinces. There :s where 1 say the wrong is done._ In assuming con-- trol of these roads I say the Dominion Govern-- ment assura«d the resposibilty ofextendingaid to local roads, because it was unreasonable to sup-- Fm that any Provincial Government would any onger continue to aid romds over whose manazement they had no control, and which were not subject (to their -- char-- ter. _ Thereforo I say the action of thg' Dommion' Government in assuming thes Mr, MEREDITH--Does ths hon. gentloman say that the eHect is to alter the charter? Hon. A. M. ROSS reenmed: When the HWouse rose 1 was referring to the claim I think this Province has in lquity to rembarsement from the Dominion Govarnment in regagd to our Frants to railways, I took the position that 15 Confederation is going to continue it must be on 1t boiug-gi;';i;i chair. o this way allowa nefils while we d n 1882 the Provincial Government sition to the Dominion Government 1it _ road from _ theow. They for some seven million dollars, ebec was willing to lose $4,000,000 bad expended. _ The Dominion refused t > accept it on those terms. AFTER RECESS. a'elock a new position. But it did assumed these roads in this ndered themselves morally or an{ proportion of the aid es, What was the ground the grant of last session ? that these roads which the d were not local, but inter-- the SBpsaker left the nz oluar Provingss yA i