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led to drain ten acres eeoh. He believed that Itt?ltll if passed, would M' rise to oottttriieaVtttty that were now unforeseen, d thet the teens: wonld ultimately cost the borrowers as much on if t " bor- rowed from Icon societies or privste individuals. It that would be the else he considered that it would be a very bad end unsound policy on the part of the Government. Former Drainage Balls were to enable "men to drain lands that ta could not drain tliemselves, but this Bi 1 _ would not assist them to do more than they , could do without it. He therefore thought the Gov- ornatent should pause before carrying a msasure of this kind into law, and he hoped " would he left over for a year in order tint the opinions of the {when of the country upon it might be obtained. The farmers were adopting a general system of draining their own lends, end they could go just as fast or as slow as they plated; this Bill would have the effect. he thought, of encouraging them to pro- ceed with their drainage st too heat it rate. The expense incurred in creating. them loans would bring the cost quite as high an if the urine", bor- rowed their money diree y from loan societies. Mr. LAUDEB said that if Township Councils were to have the power to, issue debentures without the consent of the ftt/'liaill"', that was another reu- .on why the Bill should 9 deferred. b'o smell a. sum as $200,000 would be no mat "romance to the runners, and he thought, moreover, that the Pro- vince had gone far enough Mt lending money. He agreed with many or the remarks of the hon. member for North Ontario (Mn Paxton), and " more was no pressing need for A measure of this kind, he hoped the Government would not press it. i, Mr. MILLER, while not feelinn at liberty to com mit himself " to this measure, wss disposed to tank that the farmers of this country had been very liberally dealt with. Even if the minimum amount, $5,900, was granted to each township, forty town- ships would swallow up the whole sum set spurt for the purpose. This unsure wound to be only the thin edge of the wedge to "sothesimtutieipal loan fund. IN quoted figures " mine length to show that the ten- deney had been to grant the prepondcrenee of std to the older mtmieipilititm in the I'tovrmstt, agent". the newer districts had been eomperstively neg ted. Ho did not" make theee reinsrks beesuse he repro- scntod a newly settled section of the country, but merely because he believed it we: the better policy in the interoet of the country to open up the new por- tions of the Province. _ V Mr. ms'utw thought the farmers were not by any means going too fast in draining their lands. If he had "little it speech with reference to any point of law, he could not have made more mistskes than were nude by the hon. member for South Simeos 'I. m. regard to drainage. 8s suggested that provi- tion should be suede in the Bill for wood drains, " they were better tor some kinds ot soil than tile. Mr. MOSTYN said that the "rieu1tuiiata of his I constituency were greatly in fnvour of r. monsuro of I this nnmro, and tor that reason he intomlod to sup- port tho Bill. He hoped the mochinory would be in- 1 exposure. ( It being six o'clock, the Speaker left the choir. I After "one, . Mr. CAMERON 'Inhl that though not being a farmer ptnd thorofore not being so competent " some "'4'". to giro on opinion on the lubjact of tile dmim "I, he yet thought this measure would not be in the intern-J of tho countvy. Tho suhvuul so. ll)! d to be I very roundabout one ; it would ho much hottm that former! would borrow directly from the Gov eru- nmnt than through Municipal Counciln. This 8e00,00o would bo liko . drop in tho bucket for the famous, and when the former: paid the coat of hav- " " Qttt'J: and the various other costs con- nootod wi obtaining their loans. the interest, nonunion; tive per cent., would really be equal to tho ordinary rate of inter-wt '. tt',e,', by loon looiotiu. It gas the ' ttty of the 60vcrnmont to any!" companies or tho country " a whole, and not individuals; and ttis when» would Irerirltt o. Ir n tow, and would i in" the 1lovernmont an opportunity of exercising ', patronage. It wouldbo much better to clititlo the l "mun: Among the municipalities; but though he l did not approved that course, it would be much 1 better than to distribute it in Inch a way that it i would benefit a few persons and not the countr} at large. Ho law no reason why the Government should not invent their tum!- in bank stocks or other reliable securities and derive profits from the invest- ment: the name " private inwotors. Mit was die posed to oppou the rooolution. Mr. LONG was "titrtlttd, from who! he had seen of draintgo in the Old Country, and especially in Ire- tawt, at high at: well as lowland could be grunt" improved It: drainage. He did not think, hownur, that tho lemme pmponed Was the right mm. The habit of tttpt _ money was noted- i.tytttr prevalent muons "mm-I at tho present tinw l many farms wuo under mortgnm' in building and loan societiol. Anything, therefore, that would incl-em the borrowing {munic- ot farmers would be . step in thO'wrong direction. It the Govern- Pe'. continued the 91th mos they had been in- dulging in during the put-31:00 or tour you: they WORM noon got to tho bottom of the surplus. While he was in favour of underdrainage, he did not cou- sidor the scheme proposed mm the but one for en- oounging it. Mr. BALLAN'I'YNE said the qncatlon for It trouroto eomsidor WA 3160 the 1yyer1lraitt,9tr t lands, but "MW" 1211's. ix work wh?_tho Gamm- mm taia iiifit In 1846 the P. gm!- Govern- Gintt {Swallow a mu tp lot Ipeiit £4,000,000 for the Guilt-go of lundl in (heal Britain and Ireland, and a {Huber ml: of £2,000,000 I made for thp. ume Pu in 1860. EMF, nob 35a; nvnilod lumsv-lf Of its privilege Worm, and this" wa Milly a fo'tt of "Id the: my not underdnlned in the district in which ti 'ved. Wear, hear.) Having thin oxunplo, be though: "at " 0 Government were can: we}: .8 flrTirgiis roam: um men-nu. running wu really the bull of our pro-parity, and anything um could incl-cam the pro- ductive power of farms was worthy of oonriderstiom Ho pointed out that n meeting ot agriculturists It Bt. Men's reeently, u well " the late meeting of the 2tre, " Toronto, had passed resolutions In femur o ttn.ferdrttirtittir, " Conservstive England hadthoughtu worth while to loan money to indi- viduals or this purpose, it certainly could not be a mistake for the Govomrnont to do the same thing in this country, where there were a large numbm of farmers who were not able to raise money for im- provements to their farms. The only objection to the measure was that the sum was too small, but that could easily be overcome in the future if the experi- ment became successful. (Hear, hour.) w. w89 thought that the hnp. momlm- for South Simeon would be alone in his opinion that under. draiuago was not of boncflt. As an horticaiturin his oxperiauco was that drainage increased the crop and benefitted the land. Ho coasidurud the scheme would certain] ha in the interest or the whole country, as thg oxperinRuts of those who availed themselves of the opportunity afforded than to drain their land: would, if sum-9.3m], induce the ttgash/y " Hun e....-- A- l»ll-_. Al._l_. .._A_.,I Tpa, . tf 01.0 [mm to by . gm t 13mph. "the than: moi/ed a 'dr,,')', J,tyt,Ltl,ri/,f Elli iiiiiner- @6121} got be taken up. It was estiutuwd that drainage would cause an increase in crop of five bushels pot new. Supposing that in atomuship that avaiied ital-If of the lrglt, one thousand note: only wan-o drained the creased annual yield would be fire tiiiriiiiii"l bushels of grain. Land could be drained at $15 per acre, and it could easily be calculated that the return would be a frofituble one. With regard to the out- lying districts, he. tlumght tho House had been very liberal to them, as the, expouditure on colonization roads amounted to the whole amount received from the lulo of Cm" n lands. Mr. DAWSON laid that this was not the case with Algoma. After comparing the expmidituru and re- ceipts he found there was a balance of $565,000 to the credit of tho district. With regard to the drainage when: he laid by all moans let it be tried, but he claimed fair play for Algoma and the outlying dis. trietg. Mr. SEXTON thought that the scheme slmuld be hedged round with every possible precaution. With regard to the present outlying districts, he thought they were fulrly traded in comparison with the older sections of the country, where sixty or seventy years ago the settlers hsd to construct their own roads. In conclusion, he might say that he would foul bound to oppose the Government drainage schome, unless he found when the Bill was introduced that every precaution would he taken to see that the money would be spplicd to the purpose intended. Mr. O'SULIzIVAN wished to explain that he did not object to legislation on behalf of the farmers, hm ho than!" that if momy were to be given to farmers in the alder districts to "list them in clearing their land ot nun-plan water, it should also be given to those in the newlyosenled district: to uni" them to remove their stones Ind Itumpl. (Laughton) Mr. DEROCIIE could we no objection to'the reso- lution. This country being an agricultural one. it was important to foster and encourage the farming interests. In referring to the remarks of the mem- ber for Alumna, he said than was no doubt that the revenue wu contributed to largely from the woods and forests ot the new sectionl. and it was right that they should recoivo full consideration from the Province in regard to the construction of coloni- zntion roads, do. In the old and rich counties the money arm in the past upon the main roads far ex- ceeded t e expenditure on colonization roads in the new section. Mr. BRODER contended that this measure should not be an experiment; the Government nhould be "tiatied that there was a necessity for it and then bring down a matured manure. The cases of Cunn- ds and of England were not parallel; because the spending of mom-g for undenlrainago in tho latter country mu justi ed b the fact that it was found ngcessnry to bring "itsT,'fli than; to morlIigAholt state of produetivonetss. There was too much disposition among the people of this country to depend on tho Government And that Ihould be discouraged. He was disposecf to approve of the principle of under- draiulng, but he could not support tho resolution. Mr. BEACON thought the Gorernmenthad made a mistake in this matter, because it would only in- crease the evil ot borrowing money which prm ailed to so great an extent ancng farmers. The money would be. only borrowed by the older municipalities; not one cent of it, he ventured to say, would flttd ill way into the section of country he represented. The holdinghof municipal debentures by the Govern- ment, whie had formerly boon coudvmned, would be the tyffect of this measure, and he believed a great deal of money would be lost in oouucquence. Mr. LANE said that at any mm no objection was made to the principle of umierdraiuage. It drained 13nd: yielded an increase of flrtt bushels of grain per acre as compared with undruined lands the T.tuttrytould be vutly benefitted by the iairiil adoption of the eyetcm of utuierdrainatro, and the proposal ot the Government was to be enpported be- muuro'tt would tend to bring about Inc-ha state of l things. The cost of utsderdrat'uthtit was greatly ex- _ eggaeted. Hie experience was that it rerelyex-' waded " per ecu. lie proceeded to onumcram ) the advantage: to be derived from the practice of utuurdrainigo, tho chief being a eupply of moisture from below in times of dmugbt, the drawing " of 'uperauous water in wet seasons, and the early and certain I germination of need. He deprecated hnu. gontmmm I tiuding fault with the amount of discussion upon such Illbjectl. Mr. FLESHER thought that if the scheme was to bomsftt the Province of Ontario it should be of much greater dimensions. The $200,000 would only drain eighty new: in each township, so the schema partock of the nature of en experiment. If it were intended to be of bottetit, it should be more liberal. Mr. WOOD "(rotted that the (mention of locality had come up. These ouniin localities had uotheen unattended to; $516,615) u! been 'tpent on coloni- zation roads alone were, and betwqen Georgian Ba! ttnd the Ottawa three-quarters of a million had been spent. The tendency ot all classes in this country van to not into debt, but of all classes the farmer: were the most saving and careful, They intended to invest the two hundred thousand dollars on the but security "five, per calm. h was not. ex-