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J H I X The ITOBA ACTON A I To Carry it Require a Number of Votes Equal to a Majority of Those Cast the General Elections Would Become Opera tive Man Vote Will beV on October 14th Mr Ross Elo quently Reviewsthe Whole Situation Many Opinions Quoted The Progress of Temperance The Government Striving Frankly to Redeem Its Pledges Immediately upon the opening of the Legislature Wednesday Premier Boss In troduced his bill respecting the sale of Intoxicating liquors the effect of which is to bring into force the- Manitoba liquor pet upon its being the of October next by the electors entitled to vote for members of the Legislative Assembly The act will become operr on May I upon getting a majority vote provided the total number of votes cast for it shall exceed onehalf the number- of votes cast in the coming Provincial general election The address of Premier Ross in intro ducing the bill lasted two hours and ten minutes and wag as follows I beg to move by Mr Gib- eon for leave to introduce a bill entitled An act respecting the- sale of toxica liquors is the Province of Ontario In moving the first reading of this bill of which I gave notice a few days ago I must ask the indulgence of the House for having to apeak at some length in order to explain some of tfce more important feature of the bill which I expect the House to consider more fully when it comes to second reading I have in my somewhat ex tended experience as a member House taken part in many discussions with regard to the license laws of Province end with regard to legisla tion imposing reasonable restrictions upon the sale of intoxicating liquor nil of which was thought to in the pub- He interest and was intended to pro mote public morality These discus sions and attempts at legislation have extended over many years of the life of this Legislature Even before I had the honor of a seat We perhaps the most important legislation with re- to the license laws that ever occu pied the attention of We- Legislature was discussed and is how known as the Crooks act of I gentlemen on both aides of the House indeed all wellwishers of humanity will agree that In the main the tendencies of public opinion growing and deepen ing year by which the Legislature been endeavoring to Impose and I hope measurably at least to enforce re strictions upon the illicit sale of intoxi cating liquors have been of greafc ad vantage to the public and have been of great assistance in promoting morality in maintaining law and order and in contributing morally and perhaps finan cially to the welfare of the people The effect of restrictions has been to reduce materially the number of places in which intoxicating For Instance in the year before tthe Crooks act was passed there were I Province of Ontario tavern licenses last year there were In there were 1307 shop licenses last 308 In there were whole s isle licenses last year there were In there were vessel licensee last year there were none vessel licenses have been entirety abolished We had Jo all licenses to the number of in and last year we had2950 I mention this to show that the ten dency of public opinion and the object of thi3 legislation have been to confine the sale of intoxicating liquors to the narrowest possible limits within which the license laws could be effectually en forced and if it is reasonable to infer that by reducing the number of licensee we are restraining the evils of intem perance then we have here evidence so far as statistics wilt prove anything that there must have been a very ma terial Improvement in habits of the people in the last years As an In- ataree in one licence was Issued to each persons Last year one license was Issued on an average to The reduction there Is most marked As compared with some Slates of the Union our stand D a this respect is very esliafaclory I would only men tion a State or two take for example the State of Michigan just across the border In which there is one license tor 239 persons against persons in New York they have one license for each 134 persons Another evidence of the progress of this tei sentiment is seen in the entire of licenses in many We have in Ontario organ In HI of these no are issued at all that is In cent of the there Globe Feb Province or with some of the large cities the result as a whole is equally satisfactory In Quebec there la one license for each as against one to each in Ontario I will nob should assume the full respon sibility of a measure of this kind There are people who say on the other hand that in sumptuary legislation like this in following the precedents of go into the details of this any further legislation elsewhere it is merely to mention this one fact I within our right to submit such leg that the convictions for drunkenness In Ontario are now one for each people In Quebec one for each jo Nova to the electors Prohibition has never been made a party question In the strict sense of the lib- Scotia one for each in New- 1 have taken it up as a question wick one for each 253 in Manitoba one they asked for the decision of for each in British Columbia in a party The Op- for in Prince Edward Island one for each in the one for each for the whole one for each and for Ontario one for each It appears from these statistics nd I do not know if you can rely- on them absolutely but they have been carefully prepared and I think may be trusted to mean a good deal is the most temperate Province in the Dominion and that the result of bur license legislation Jus been gratifying in the extreme I will not wait to go over the legislation of the various years but will just mention one or two great steps in advance which have been taken in the last few years I refer particularly to the license act of whereby the unit of population to each hotel was raised- resulting in the closing of about hotels also limited thehoufa for towns from to 10 and in cities from 8 am to pm Pro- this act In many cittes and inspectors visions there Was no limi tation at- all on sale of liquors in the evenings during the day or during the night Another amendment to the act prohi bited sale of liquors to minors TThe effect of that in a word is simply that onehalf or nearly whole population of the Province wjis placed under prohibitory regulations Other minor provisions need not be Mentioned Now the high- water mark of our license law was reached In position has acted in a similar way How to account for this attitude of the two parties is rather a difficult matter It would perhaps require in- I can understand that prohibition were passed by either party In tho ordinary method of political warfare there might be a disposition on other side to discredit it say that either party would but it has sometimes happened In conflicts If this quest can be submitted to the people as question on the best thought of the people can be and in regard to which the strongest conviction of the people can be expressed without regard to their party affiliations we would have a bet- and more conclusive and perhaps a more judicial decision than we could get it In any other way Is It Constitutional- The first question with which I am met then is this la referendum which we are now adopting a constitutional mode of procedure I notice that some of our newspapers take the ground that It i not constitutional and as a mat ter of course are severe ly censured for adopting this measure It is said to be a measure which we are our responsibilities It said to be a departure from British usages fact that we are introducing the measure this form adds to the responsibilities which I now feel In the discussion on which I have entered I am not merely Introducing a bill for prohibition but a- will be quoted fts a precedent for many years to come as to the proper proce dure in matters of this kind and In other matters I am aware what a great divergence it may mean what a great divergence from the practice of the measure of public support which it will receive in case it is brought into legal operation It is for this reason that the Dominion Parliament and the severoJ Provinces have within ft decade of years submitted to the people at the polls the question whether they are In favor of prohibiting the sale of spirituous liquors within the jfuilts of their constitutional jurisdic tion lieore proceeding to pass legisla tion dealing with the Plebiscite nd Referendum- the plebiscite may be compared to the Swiss joitatlve which give the right to the electors to the Legislative bodies to take up and consider any sub ject of public interest the referendum which is also borrowed from the same country has been also suggested on era occasions as a desirable and efficient method of bringing- into force a meas ure which can only be successful when it obtains the unequivocal support of a large majority of the people interested in its provisions This democratic of the Swiss political system may be compared with the practice that si ready exists in Canada of referring cer tain bylaws of municipal bodies to the vote of the ratepayers of a municipal ity of giving the people of a district an opportunity of accepting or rejecting the Canada temperance act of permitting a majority of the ratepayers in a muni cipal division to establish a free library at the public- expense etc And here Mr Ross continued he quotes a high constitutional authority Cooley of whose standing I am sure gentle men are well aware Mr says It Is not always essentia that a THE PROHIBITION BILL 1 I Legislation Was Postponed It was thought that a year ago this act could still further improved and tie Government bad carefully prepared a bill for that purpose While that was under consideration we were met by the action of the Manitoba legislature adopting Provincial prohibition Wo were met too by strong demands from a very influential part of our population for similar prohibition in Ontario and we thought that until this question of partial prohibition was disposed of we would allow the license law to stand The larger would of course include the lesser in the estimation of the promoters of this latter movement We therefore had no license legislation since al though we were of the opinion and per haps that opinion will be shared by gentlemen opposite that our license law could be still further improved Now I mention this to show the progress we have made along the line of license legislation and to bring us up to the point at which we now arrive namely to consider whether legislation shall for the present be abandoned and whether we shall embark a measure of partial pro hibition and I say partial prohibition because by that meaning prohibition to the extent of our constitutional limita tion Manitoba BUI Adopted The Government has decided to bring In a bill in the terms of the Manitoba act the provisions of which are well known to every- horn gentleman in this House the main provisions st all events are wellknown That will be refer red to the House in the usual way Sev eral objections are taken to what is sup posed to be the policy of the Govern In regard In the first place I shall tike into my con fidence and say we are not inlroducing that act to In the way placed upon te statute by the assent of the Crown and in that way becoming law when so assented to It to proposed to introduce the act tp have It considered clause by clause and at some time in the future refer that act to the electors of the Province of Ontario in order to get an expression of opinion from them arid that expression favorable then the act will go Into on the terms stated therein Propriety pi the I HOPE Bill will bo by the a fulfilment of any promise wo have made and that it will bo instrument for- elevating morals of country HON ROSS fe and lengthened explanation this Legislature and of the Legislatures to set at rest the attitude to explain J of the colonies constitutional gov- the attitude of the public on prohibition as a party measure compared with or contrasted with the attitude of the pub lic on other party measures For In stance protection was made a party measure and manhood suffrage was in a certain sense made a party measure in this country and confederation was made a party measure and yet for thirty years more teas the question of prohibition has been before the Par first of the old Province of Canada then the parliament of the dominion and before this Parliament and yet neither of the two great partite felt themselves disposed to raise an is sue a direct issue at the polls on the question of prohibition in the same way as Issues are raised on the other I have Not- a Party Question- That being the case we therefore presenting this question to the House established here Having some misgivings in the matter I put my self In communication with Sir John who is admittedly a high au thority on constitutional matters wrote him as long ago as Dec last asking him to express his opinion on two points Opinions of High Authorities he think that the question of a referendum was a constitutional mode of procedure and secondly when the opinions of the electors had been expressed by what procedure could the prerogative of the Crown be put- Into feet Sir John mem- is ft little long but said at fhe outset- I to proceed with deliberation and calmness as the question la such an Important one and I shall give In his views In answering the not strictly as party measure we are letter he said democratic con- not electors to vote as Lib- of the Canadian system of Par- we are tbg it In the sense that it- to question of vast Importance to the peo ple ft question that to some extent of so peat importance tie time government can be seen in growing tendency of recent yeara depart somewhat under special mstftuees from the old principle of Uftujentry sovereign legislation ful legislative act should be a com petent statute which must in any event take effect as law at the time it leaves the hand of the legislative department A statute may be conditional and its faking effect may be made to depend upon some subsequent effect On the question of the referendum applied to certain classes legislation Dr James well A general elect although in form a choice of particular persons has now become practically an expression of popular opinion on the two or three leading measures then propounded and discussed by party leaders well as a vote confldenco or no confidence in the Ministry of the day It Is in substance a vote on those measures although of course a vote only on their general principles and not like the Swiss referendum up on the statute which legislature has passed Even In a country which clbgr to and founds itself upon the absolute supremacy of Its represents Chamber the notion of a direct peal to the people has pro- And Mr Dicey an equally com petent authority tells The In shortiis ftrsguW normal prohibition hilt on the the act a flrat time in- A on the bill VfU be on October raniority Will decide i but to anenanxe the east prohibition than naif Vote bail of The vote vriii be on the The Question of left In abeyance of the referendum On the second Tuesday of October that is on October the of the Province of Ontario will be called upon to vote as to whether the partial measure of prohibition provided by what Is ordinarily known as the Manitoba act shall be applied to Ontario qUeation will ba decided by a ma jority of the electorate but to validate the act that majority must be equal to a majority of the total number of votes polled at the general Provincial elec tion which will take place earlier In the year Thus if votes are polledlnthe general election over votes must be cast In favor of pro hibition at the referendum In arriv ing at the total constituencies In which elections Jake place by acclamation will be estimated as- contributing to the total vote the same percentage of the voters on their lists as that of the con- in which contests take place decision will be left to voters quaU- fled to vote for the Provincial Legisla ture I- The question of compensation will be left for subsequent settlement Should the referendum result In the en actment of the law compensation must be faced by the Legislature then exist ing Premier intimated that he considered It a suitable object for the sifting and deliberations of a commis sion Finally the bill becomes law if ma de valid on May 1 The foregoing the Gov ernment policy in dealing with the created by the Privy Council af firming the of the Manitoba act lion Geo afternoon submitted for its flrat reading the bill which embodies this pol icy explaining Sis grounds In a speech was a remarkably clear and full statement of the position of the Gov ernment upon the subject It la unnecessary to state that Interest in the Premiers was of keenest When St 325 pm fee rose to make the statement he Wad an audience which was limited only by the capacity of the great Leg islative chamber The galleries were packed the privileged portions of the floor under the galleries were crowded with favored visitors every member was In his place And yet the proceed ings were of the quietest The order of business in which the explanation came is ordinarily devoted to the for mal placing of business before tbe House Perhaps a dozen bills received their first reading then when at tention had been lulled by the reitera tion of formalities the head of the Gov ernment was upon his feet and unher alded by the preliminary cheer with which Parliamentary followers love to emphasize the openings words of a lead er be at his task in low even tones with deliberate enunciation and careful phrasing Coolly and lucidly the speech flowed on In perfect alienee The voice as the speaker warmed to his task of exposition but be was intent upon lucidity not upon arousing en thusiasm It not a debating speech but an expository one No reference to Parliamentary opponents was made there was none of the cut and thrust In which Mr Ross can upon occasion excel It was an explanation but without passion and with perfect clearness opening portion of Mr speech was devoted to an exposition of the principle of the referendum and a demonstration the course of the Government resort to it is perfectly constitutional The legal right of the Province to use the he established by an mass of evidence Much of it was contained in an able monograph upon the- subject supplied by so eminent an authority as John telling use was also made by Mr Ross of more than one Privy Council judgment touch ing upon the extent of the Provincial powers Mr Justice Mills Sir John Thompson Sir Wilfrid Lauder Sir John Sir Mackenzie Bo well were some of the Canadian publicists quoted In this connection And In any event he declared he was not afraid to create a precedent With cogency Mr Ross set forth what may be termed desira bility of this new constitu tional expedient The referendum he showed by an exhaustive series citations Is steadily growing in favor in Englishspeaking world thought- fill a statesman us Lord Salisbury re cently indicated it as a valuable means of opposing a bulwark to popular pSH- and Mr Ross added to this a re minder that Ontario having no second chamber may do worse than adopt some sacb check upon the Intensity with which a particular course of action may occa sionally be urged upon the Government end- the House The approval given by such moral reformers as the late Miss Frances and Dr Lyman Abbott to direct legislation was also noted In the field of actual legislation the parliament has expressly sanc tioned the use of the referendum In Australia the Australian use of it offers points which constitute a valuable con tribution to the art of government It Is steadily growing in public favor Great Britain and a certain use has long been made of Ontario A subordinate division of Mr Rosa speech dealt with the application of the referendum to the question of prohibi tion in this connection he set forth with great clearness that temperance workers have repeatedly requested it as early ae In and as late as In Ho also in this connection touched upon the pro portion of the vote which should be re garded as mandate quoting ft longarj ray of authorities who regard it as advisable to insist upon a majority j His position Ithus Mr Ross proceeded to announce the condi tions on which the referendum Is to bo submitted as already stated His an- of the Important question of the proportion of the vote was especially dear and pointed The practically uni versal opinion of the friends of temper- he had already pointed out was that any prohibitory measure should have a substantial backing It was he added in the ale He was inclined hoi observed to favor the requiring of a majority of those on the lists bilk practical considerations intervened and rendered such a requirement an handicap A good deal had been heard of requiring a certain percentage of the vote cast and at some length he con sidered this At one time he said tha Government had considered the advisa bility of requiring a threefifths but against this was to be set tbe fact that the number going to the polls might be very small Accordingly they decided upon a majority with the added condition that the favorable vote must- be at least a majority of the vote cast at the coming Provincial election- Ho remarked that the number of votes ally polled at such elections is aboufe rarely reaching He sold that vote be held separate from other elections thus be fog put upon an equality with Parlia mentary elections Ho declined to Induce voteralto proceed to the polls by coup- ling the referendum with municipal or other elections A temperance man would not take the trouble to vote prohibition would not be of to prohibition after it had been passed The question of compensation ha dealt with as already indicated This closed Mr Ross explanation Mr Whitney reserved his remarks for tha second reading The bill will come up for its second reading next week and tho main debate will take place then to be accepted Is laid before tho people in its precise terms they are concerned solely with its merits and de merits their thoughts are not distracted by tie necessity for considering any other topic In the constitution of the new commonwealth of Australia there is a provision which practically admits the usefulness of a referendum in certain cases of legislative difficulty and that Is In a between the Sen ate and House of Representatives both elective on a In case of an conflict the Houses are dis solved and an expression of opinion is obtained from the electorate on this measure alone which is then again sub mitted to the Legislature to be settled by a joint vote of both Houses a Approved by Parliament Now in Australia we find that a constitution contains provision for a re ferendum That constitution was adopt ed by the Imperial Legislature a ago The Imperial accepted that constitution with empire- the two branches of the Legis lature to be submitted to the electors then we would be surely la referring to electors measure which there a great difference of opinion and on which an opinion cannot be got In any other way Mr Whitney I would remind my friend that the to which ha is now alluding were placed In the con stitution of Australia because of tha deadlock over a situation which pre vents the possibility of any other set y The Premier The British Houses haye come tor a dead lock and there is no provision in British constitution for such a refer The constitution of Com instead of allowing an ir conflict to continue adopted the referendum as tho solution- of that deadlock and adopted that solution the approval and concurrence of the British House of Commons and House of Lords and with the best legal advice and opinions of beat minds J I