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Downtown revitalization Merchants Speak up on seeder EDITORS NOTE Last Wednesday the Examiner published report from the Industrial and Business Development Committee of Barrie on downtown revitaliza tion Today The Examiner looks at the seeder project the major revitilization proposal for Barrie how businessmen View it and at the group of ratepayers opposed to the pro ject By DENNIS LANTIIIER Of The Examiner It would appear downtown store merchants in the area af fected by the downtown improvement project are just about evenly split as to the merits of the proposal survey of 15 stores in the west end of Barries downtown shows that seven merchants are generally in favor of the pro ject itself Another six merchants say they are opposed to the scheme Just two are undecided as to the effects such an improvement project would have on the area itself The Examiner conducted the survey Monday through stores in the DunlopStreetAMaple Avenue area NOAIIS ARK Perhaps the most interesting of all reactions on this day came from Graham Swales owner of Noahs Ark Pet Shop on Maple Avenue Swales store would in all probability be demolished if the project went through But perhaps surprisingly Swale told The Examiner he is in favor of the plan Its good thing he said The downtown will continue to deteriorate unless they do something love my store have lot to lose he said dont know if could afford to go into their mall But no matter what you do someone is going to lose he said think the downtown area does need revitalization But Swalc said he wishes the projects developers would talk to him about their plans want to expand my business he said But dont even know yet if the project is going ahead If they could at least let us know Id like to know what Im going to be doing the next few years If lose my business Ive lost everything he added But downtown Barrie is too good an area to have everybody else the mallst get the business Carole Nap has just opened up her new store Country Food Barrel on Dunlop Street West but says the seeder project idea sounds great to her Im all for downtowns she said You cant find personal identity in mall stores as you can in downtown Barrie Mrs Nap said she doesnt know too much about the project but that one of the developers for the scheme Millet Salter has already spoken to her about it LeBOELF JEWELLERS Bill LeBoeuf owner of Bill LeBoeuf Jewellers right next door said he is in favor of the project and its location In business for 21 years downtown LeBoeuf said change is necessary because Barrie continues to grow But LeBoeuf also said he didnt know yet if the project would be beneficial to him Business is up however he said When you run good shop you still getthe business he said LeBoeuf incidentally was chairman of the downtown board for three years Also in favor of the principle of the scheme is Jack Garner owner of Gamers Sports on Dunlop Street But there are numerous answers to the scheme which are needed at this time Garner said want to see the site plan bylaw first to find out exactly what theyre going to do he said The effects of traffic downtown are still now known along with possible relocation of street parking Until these factors have been determined Garner said he will reserve his judgment of the plan LA SUBMARINE Don Travis owner of La Submarine is more definite in his refusal to back the plan tend to side with Gord Rach another downtown store ame Downtown Barrie at the Five Points intersection Opinions vary on the proposed downtown project for Barrie But all agree the project would have profound effect on the downtown core for years to come Examiner Photo Cant demolish 50 homes ABC says projects location wrong By RICHARD THOMAS Of The Examiner The chairman of the Associa tion of Barrie Citizens ABC says its members are not up posed to the revitalization of Barries doWntown core but question whether such goal and the proposed seeder project as it now stands are one and the same Virginia CresswellJones told The Examiner in an interview it is not the why of revital ization the association is oppos ing but the where and the how Ever since the current seeder project was proposed last fall the association has attacked the choice of the site which stretches along the north side of Dunlop Street West between Toronto and Bayfield Streets and extends north into one of the older residential areas in the city This is commercial expan sion and has nothing to do with revitalizing the downtown core said Mrs Cresswell Jones You cant tell demolishing 40 or 50 homes revitalizing when you leave the main street as it is The fact that the seeder pro ject with its $29 million price tag and approximately 300000 square feet of mall and depart ment stores will encroach on residential land is the associa tions main beef Homes which the association feels are irreplaceable will be lost in the area of Toronto Mary and High Streets and Maple Avenue as well to make room for parking space And the association said Mrs CresswellJones isnt satisfied that city council and those in favor have sufficiently ex plored the alternatives which would involve less sacrifice They are destroying good downtown neighborhood and at the same time arent dealing with the historic commercial downtown area If they want to revitalize they should stick to the com mercial section There are still vacant lands under utilized buildings in the commercial downtown said Mrs CresswellJones and surely out of those two developer could come up with an acceptable plan Other alternatives which have less impact on the resi dential area do exist said Mrs Cresswelldones but great deal of pressure has been put on the public to accept everything without being given chance to discuss it These plans 11 in all were part of the core area study for the city of Barrie released in March 1978 Submitted by What do you think Diamond Planners Ltd all but four were rejected either because they separated the seeder project into two loca tions in the citys east and west ends or involved the closing of major traffic routes such as Bayfield and Dunlop Streets The current seeder project proposed by the developers Downtown Properties Ltd is actually an expanded version of one of the Diamond plans said Mrs CresswellJones The original did not encroach on the residential properties however and concentrated development along the nor thern strip of Dunlop Street West she said But the Downtown Properties Ltd proposal was being con sidered even before the core area study with its alternatives was even finished Mrs CresswellJ ones said Although the study was not owner and opponent to the scheme he explained Youre looking at 250000 square feet in the proposed mall thats more than the total area in the main street It will either make or break the downtown he said Travis said he doesnt see how the project will help out the main street He said that likely most of the persons would go to new mall and bypass the downtown stores Travis said more should be done to promote downtown as it now stands MOORES UNIFORM Barbara Moore owner of Moores Uniform Shop on Toronto Street said she is undecided Theres good and bad for both sides suppose she said dont like to see those good houses go but the downtown really does need something Tim Cromwell manager of Granada TV on Dunlop Street said it would be great to do something for downtown but he says he doesnt think enough is being done Cromwell said he wants to see better parking downtown to encourage shoppers But Cromwell offering different view then the ABC group said tearing down of older houses on Toronto Street is good idea think lot of older buildings need tearing down he said HELPS OTHERS Kleanthis Korkodilos owner of new nutrition store on dunlop Street said he cant see how the project would help his store but said improvement projects have helped out other On tario cities Parking is bit of problem in downtown Barrie but not one of major proportions he said Something must be done however to make downtown more attractive to people he said Myles Hallam owner of Wide Awake Shoe Repair on Maple Ave said not enough thought has gone into the project When think of downtown think of little stores he said dont think people would go through the new malls and come back downtown Hallam said his business is great as it is now John Bren nan coownert of Brennans Meat Market on Maple Ave said the project wont hurt downtown You cant stand still he said If you dont keep up with whats going on youre going to fall back John Niekerk is in danger of having his Continental Specialities shop torn down and is not pleased with that pro spect The developers are only interested in making money he said Theyre not interested in the people involved at all Ive spent 28 years on this business and now they want to flatten out my store Im against the project as it is now he added Not enough information is available to make decision one way or another said Phyllis Moody manager of Travelworld on Maple Ave dont really know if Barrie is ready for something of that magnitude she said She said the project might draw people but that theme is needed such as heritage mall for example would like to see some of the older homes stay she said ALDIO CORNER Susan Crawford coowner of Audio Corner said the plan would probably be advantageous to its Dunlop Street West loca tion But she said more should be done for existing stores In the present situation cant see what we would do with that many outlets if somebody definitely knew Barrie was going to ex pand that much she said And an unidentified employee with stationery store on Dunlop Street says the project will be good for downtown VIRGINIA CRESSWELI JONES wants more acceptable plan DeveloEer Millet Salter Downtown Barrie is ready for an injection of new shopping facilities says the partner of development firm prepared to build $29 commercial centre in the citys central core Barrie is in spite of what some people think growth centre says Millet Salter partner of Downtown Properties Barrie Ltd His firm wants to build 300000 square foot commercial centre running along Dunlop Street About $8 million will be loan ed to the developer in the form of seeder money by the city and province Through rentals and commercial business taxes however plans are for these debts to be repayed within 60 years after which time Barrie will own the land and collect rent from the developer HALT DOLLAR FLOW Those in favor of the seeder project in cluding consultants who have conducted retail market surveys of the citys business the examiner Thursday Sept 29 1979 $29M complex right for Barrie MRS MARTIN Barrie resident think that the steps that the city council is taking are suitable for people who can not manage to go up to the malls The buses are so han dy for the downtown MIKE SARENtIIltK put in plaza would like to see some of the older homes around Worsley Owen and Clapper ton by Macdonald demolish ed so they could put in plaza or some parking space would make for better downtown Barrie BRlfF FARRELL SHIRLEY STAFFORD maintain the old hotel would help would like to see Barrie convention hotel right maintain its old but clean in the downtown like and dignified appearame ll Peterborough has would cer steel and glass buildings go up keep them in an area with the other new buildings tainly help would like to see our council do something they should make some deci sion before there is nothing left to redevelop completed until March 1978 memorandum from the AJ Diamond Planners to Mayor Ross Archer dated Nov 1977 indicated that the current seeder project was being con sidered as the second phase in development proposal by Downtown Properties Ltd said Mrs CresswellJones Phase One was the Downtown Centre owned by Downtown Properties Ltd and now located on the corner of High and Dunlop Streets Even then said Mrs CresswellJones the planners were concerned that this loca tion at the west end of Dunlop Street would not be an ideal location for project this size as it could affect the remainder of the downtown core especially the businesses furthest away at the east end of the street The association shares this concern for the merchants at the other end of Dunlop Street Mrs CresswellJones said and is also concerned that the pro ject in its current location may end up being white elephant The seeder project made available through the Ontario Ministry of Housings downtown revitalization pro gram is to be subsidized by municipal and provincial loans to the tune of about $8 million These loans are to be paid back by the developer in 60 years at which time the city will own the land and collect rent and commercial taxes and those who favor the project say this will mean no burden to the taxpayer The association finds this claim quite frightening said Mrs CresswelLJones because it is based on the assumption that every uare inch of space will be leas This assumption is quite unrealistic she said as the Downtown Centre which has been leasing space for almost two yers is still not full In addition the seeder pro ject as it now stands does not conform totally to the objec tives laid down by the Ontario Downtown Revitalization Pro gram Mrs CresswellJones said The purpose of the associa tion is to promote the contribu tion of neighborhoods to the ci ty she said and because the neighborhood threatened by the seeder project is viable one the project is very ques tionable What we are saying is that with our own money we are destroying an irreplaceable part of ourselves core argue the centre to include depart ment stors mall and multilevel parking will help plug the leak of some $17 million consumer dollars which flow out of Barrie each year There is significant room in the near futurefor substantial development in Bar ries downtown Salter says More shopping facilities will be needed he says to provide service to Barrie residents expected to grow to more than 100000 by the end of the century Salter says there are two options One is to build new confidence in downtown Barrie by locating new development there The other he says is to build large com mercial centres in smaller centres such as Painswick or Stroud whch are expected to grow as Barrie expands in the future If the latter happens Salter argues downtown Barrie may be playing second fiddle to attractive developments away from the city core Suburban retail centres syphon traffic away from the downtown and thats what would happen to Barrie he says Barrie would lose To wait more than two or three years before adding new development to the citys downtown may be too late Salter says and the seeder money will go to another needy Ontario city with Barrie being the loser Traditionally citys central core is the prime source for strong tax base says Salter and to let downtown Barrie slip as vital retail centre will mean loss of tax revenue to the city Another advantage to locating new retail facilities in an established area is that an in frastructure roads sewers street lights is already available he says To build new commercial centre on vacant land Since it was proposed last fall the con troversial seeder project designed to revitalize Barries downtown core has been an issue simmering on the backburner of public opinion The controversy remains but time is drawing short if Barrie is to take advantage of the Ontario Downtown Revitalization Program which would help fund the project The arguments pro and con have see sawed between city fathers developers and some businessmen who stress the im portance the millions of consumer dollars the project will keep in the city and group of ratepayers called the Association of Bar rie Citizens ABC who object to the project destroying valuable homes Those in favor including consultants who have conducted marketing surveys of the ci tys business core argue that the centre will help plug the leak of some $17 million which some consumers spend outside the city Opponents to seeder however claim that although they arent against revitilization they remain unconvinced the project is the MILLET SALTER strong city core away from established services would be more costly says Salter An alternative which has come before city officials in the past has been to locate the centreon either side of Bayfield Street stretching from Collier Street south across Dunlop Street towards the lakeshore But Slater says one problem with that alter native is that space is not readily available RIGHT LOCATION Im completely convinced that our pro ject is the right location he says dont want to talk negatively about other pro posals but positively about ours ratepayers group the Association of Barrie Citizens has attacked the seeder project and forced the issue before the On tario Municipal Board where hearing will likely decide one way or another in January 1980 If the city wins it has until July to get the pr0jecl underway which leaves little time for it to spend considering alternatives without backer If the city loses the seeder project op portunity will be lost and other municipalities now waiting in line will have priority to the funds now set aside for Bar rie Time running short for core alternatives original deadline of July 1979 in which to take advantage of subsidies offered through the Ontario revitalization program While the citys isnt against considering alternative says planning director Rick Bates the current proposal is the only one backed by developer at this time An alternative which would locate the commercial centre on either side of Bayfield Street from Collier Street towards the lakeshore was also wellfavored by city councilsays Bates But no developer came forward to back it he added The key to any alternative is another developer willing to back another project but time may be running out By its opposition to the proposed seeder site ABC has forced an Ontario Municipal Board hearing in January 1980 where the issue will likely be decided If the city wins it has until July to get the project under way which leaves little time to spend considering alternatives If the city loses the seeder project op portunity will be lost and other best one for the city The city has years extension on the municipalities now waiting in line will have priority to fund now set aside for Barrie Historian shows concern for preserving heritage One opponent of the proposed seeder project is not convinced it IS the only step towards revitalization of Barries downtown core or even the best step The case hasnt been made that this is the best approach Robert Phillips historian and director eneritus of Heritage Canada told The Examiner Phillips who lives in Ottawa but spent his childhood in Bar rie said he the strength of the community de nds on the strength of the owntown and was not against develop ment But what would like to see proven is that this is the right development in the right place at the right cost The question have in my mind is that with so much unus ed land why is it necessary that highly desirable residential property be demolished Phillips said the first case which must be established is that there is not better place for development And once all the desirable places have been investigated the next question is why not preserve buildings in the area and recycle them for new use Recycling would create something distinctive said Phillips and this not just park ing lots is what brings people in to shop If you want to compete with the shopping centres build something that isnt the same but is better Imaginative infill near waterfront or in recycled homes has been achieved suc cessfully in countless other cities said Phillips and nobody has made the case that these possibilities are not available in Barrie